Media tycoon Jimmy Lai continued to invite guests based in the US to speak on his Twitter “live chats,” even after senior Apple Daily staff relayed concerns about potentially breaching the national security law, one of his former employees has testified.
Former associate publisher Chan Pui-man, who earlier pleaded guilty to conspiring to collude with foreign forced and was testifying for the prosecution on Thursday, said that Lai thought pressure from the international community was “useful,” even after the passage of the national security law in June 2020.
Prosecutor Ivan Cheung showed the court a message Lai sent to Chan including the full text of an executive order from then-US president Donald Trump.
“Mr Lai thought US pressure on [China] or Hong Kong could stop the promulgation of the national security law,” Chan said.
Lai, 76, is on trial for two counts of taking part in a “conspiracy to collude with foreign forces” under the security legislation, and also for conspiring to publish “seditious” materials under a colonial-era law. The self-made millionaire’s media outlet, which was forced to close in June 2021 after senior staff were arrested, faces the same charges. Apple Daily’s newsroom was raided twice, and its assets were frozen.
Chan told the court she did not recall Lai commenting further on the executive order, but added that she knew Lai “attached much importance” to the news of Trump’s order.
“We were slightly surprised that he continued with the live chat program, so colleagues, including myself, made inquiries with lawyers,” Chan told the court.
She then told the court that publisher Cheung Kim-hung had expressed similar concerns to Lai, after he continued to hold the “Live Chat with Jimmy Lai” interviews. The interviews were hosted by Lai, featuring mostly foreign guest speakers with backgrounds ranging from politics, academics, and activism.
The ex-publisher added that Lai continued to hold the broadcasts, even after Beijing’s passage of the national security legislation. That demonstrated that Lai still thought that international attention and pressure was still “useful,” Chan said.
Against orders
Along with the text of the executive order, Lai asked Chan to come up with a “shitlist,” which Chan said referred to a list of potential sanctions targets.
She added that she discussed the matter with her coworkers to see if it would be feasible to come up with such a list, but ultimately decided against it, as the list would have been hard to execute as a news report.
The report resulting from the release instead covered the potential impact of the order, Chan said. “Of course, that would include sanctions on officials, but for a newspaper to do that would be difficult,” she said.
Concerns over the national security law were voiced in meetings. The court was shown a text message from Chan to Cheung Kim-hung dated July 17, 2020, with a summary of key meeting points.
One of the points read: “Can think over the wording, the red line set by NSL is vague, follow your own conscience, principles of news reporting.”
Chan told the court that members of the paper’s staff, herself included, had concerns as to whether their reports might breach the national security law, “but we still had to get the news out every day.”
The paper would continue to report on the US sanctions regime against Hong Kong officials in the weeks leading up to Lai’s arrest in August 2020.
The court was shown a front-page Apple Daily story from July 18, 2020, about US sanctions against Han Zheng, at the time Beijing’s top man on Hong Kong and Macau affairs, as well as then-chief executive Carrie Lam, and then-police commissioner Chris Tang.
The paper also ran a story on August 10 about an international coalition led by Luke de Pulford, co-founder of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, and former lawmaker Nathan Law seeking to prosecute British police officers in Hong Kong, the court heard, after Lai forwarded Chan a press release from de Pulford.
Apple Daily raid
On August 10, 2020, police officers raided the offices of Next Digital, Apple Daily’s parent company, and arrested Lai. Chan told the court that reporters, including those not from Apple Daily, sent in enquiries as to whether the paper would remain in operation.
“So I wrote on my personal Facebook account saying everyone would be working,” she said. “I was then made aware that newspapers would still be published the following day.”
The prosecution presented a scanned print copy of the newspaper dated August 11, 2020, the day after Lai’s arrest. The front-page story covered the police raid, with the headline “Apple Daily will definitely hold on till the end.”
In the article, Cheung Kim-hung was quoted as saying: “Just take it as it comes. Can’t worry about it, can’t worry about it too much.”
Chan was quoted as saying on Facebook: “All colleagues will continue gathering and editing news. The publishing of news will continue. The distribution of newspaper will be as usual tomorrow.”
Asked about a declaration in the article titled “Stand your ground, and hold on till the end!”, Chan said: “We had to express the newsroom’s stance that reflected the spirit of what Cheung had said.”
“Did you mean what you said?” asked prosecutor Cheung. Chan answered: “At the time, yes. At the time the feeling was that searching a newsroom was big deal.”
She added that while she might have delegated the actual writing of the declaration to another colleague, she agreed with the content.
When Lai’s trial began on December 18, 2023, he had already spent more than 1,000 days in custody after having had his bail revoked in December 2020. Three judges – handpicked by Hong Kong’s chief executive to hear national security cases – are presiding over Lai’s trial in the place of a jury, marking a departure from the city’s common law traditions.
Beijing inserted national security legislation directly into Hong Kong’s mini-constitution in June 2020 following a year of pro-democracy protests and unrest. It criminalised subversion, secession, collusion with foreign forces and terrorist acts – broadly defined to include disruption to transport and other infrastructure. The move gave police sweeping new powers and led to hundreds of arrests amid new legal precedents, while dozens of civil society groups disappeared. The authorities say it restored stability and peace to the city, rejecting criticism from trade partners, the UN and NGOs.
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